Warning: Stealing generations attracts a mandatory lifetime sentence
Well back in the blogs. Why not start again with a simple issue eh? Lets see… abortion, nuclear power, Palestine? Nah, closer to home. How about the Stolen Generation? Sweet.
I was discussing this with some colleagues this afternoon and I found myself automatically jumping to the defence of ‘the stolen generation’ and arguing that compensation be awarded to the poor buggers who were stolen. During the mini-shitstorm that followed I found myself sounding increasingly ignorant of the actual facts. So I’ve decided to start from scratch. What the fuck is going on here?
I am going to quote heavily from the 1997 report “Bringing Them Home : Report of the National Inquiry into the Separation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Children from Their Families”. I am relying on this report because it seems to be the most comprehensive examination of the ‘Stolen Generation’ that exists. It was commissioned by the Australian Attorney-General Michael Levarch.
So What Happened?
The history of White-Black Australian relations has undergone many phases. It was initially one of pure colonisation, but the problem of the blacks was both a physical and a political one for the early settlers. Various solutions to the ‘black problem’ have been proposed and implemented over the last two hundred years. Firstly it was ignorance, then assimilation, then integration, then seemingly ignorance again and most recently intervention.
The British rulers, unhappy with the way the settlers were dealing with the Indigenous population, created a protectorate system to improve the lot of the blacks. Thus we entered various periods of various approaches that actually resulted in the full blood population being resigned to the fate of extinction, while highlighting the new phenomenon of the ‘half-caste’. The non-full-blood population was recognised as showing none of the signs of extinction of their purer cousins and were thus seen as a problem that would have to be dealt with, rather than left to run it’s own course. Thus the process of assimilation was started.
Poverty Rampant? Was it in the best interests of the child?
A common argument is that the children were living in poverty and thus it was right to remove them from their parents. My research has concluded that poverty was not the main reason for the removal of children, assimilation was, but it has and continues to be used as an excuse, so lets look at that argument. I prefix this by saying that very few would argue that poverty did not exist amongst the Indigenous population at the time.
Under the general child welfare law, Indigenous children had to be found to be `neglected', `destitute' or `uncontrollable'. These terms were applied by courts much more readily to Indigenous children than non-Indigenous children as the definitions and interpretations of those terms assumed a non-Indigenous model of child-rearing and regarded poverty as synonymous with neglect. From here.
From the middle part of that article it seems clear that the aboriginal people were caught in a kind of Catch-22 situation. Traditional methods of child rearing were by definition neglectful, yet they were not given the same allocations of welfare as the white population until 1966 and they were constantly scrutinised on their level of poverty, having their children taken away as a result of not fitting the white minimal levels of it.
So while poverty most certainly existed, it was reinforced by the Government’s restriction of welfare to the population. It is also worth noting that we are not talking about Aboriginal people living traditionally on their lands here. In most cases they had been kicked off their productive lands by the settlers.
Is it ancient history? How long did this go on?
The process could be argued to have started from the moment of colonisation, but the legislation backing it up was probably most formalised at the beginning of last century. It is by no means a relic of the past though.
During the 1950s and 1960s even greater numbers of Indigenous children were removed from their families to advance the cause of assimilation. Not only were they removed for alleged neglect, they were removed to attend school in distant places, to receive medical treatment and to be adopted out at birth.
That is not ancient history by any stretch of the imagination. My parents were born in the 1950’s and they sure as hell remember their childhood.
How many were affected?
Here the figures are simply not available. Records were incomplete or have vanished over time. The report states:
Nationally we can conclude with confidence that between one in three and one in ten Indigenous children were forcibly removed from their families and communities in the period from approximately 1910 until 1970.
The report goes on to say that the actual number fluctuated during different periods, and also includes those removed for actual neglect and justice reasons (i.e. prison). It is undeniably a large number in relation to the Aboriginal population.
Is an apology is justified?
This seems to me to be a separate issue from whether compensation is justified. It represents an acknowledgement that the actions taken in the past are regretful and should not be repeated while also cementing in history the moving on from those times.
From the report we have the following study. Those persons removed from their families were found to be:
Is compensation justified?
This is most certainly a matter for the lawyers, but I can offer a few pieces of insight.
While Indigenous children were being removed from their families at a young age, child welfare practice in relation to non-Indigenous children was being influenced by the work on maternal deprivation conducted by John Bowlby for the World Health Organisation and by a 1951 United Nations report which stressed that child welfare services should be focussed on assisting families to keep their children with them.
I’m sure a skilled lawyer could argue that this represented a failure of the provision of duty of care in relation to best practice, but I’m also fairly certain that the terms ‘duty of care’ and ‘best practice’ were not entrenched in law precedence until more recent times. Can’t really comment with confidence on that one.
More interesting is this; once the Whitlam Government increased the funding and availability of legal services to the Aboriginal population there was an immediate decline in the number of Indigenous children being removed. If there is an absence of legislative change relating to the removed of children and more specifically Indigenous children around that period then it seems to me that the removal of at least a portion of those children was illegal under the legislation at the time. Remember, this is 1972 we are talking about here. I was born seven years later.
Those are the arguments most suited to class action (do we have those in Australia?) type claims that point out systemic illegal or negligent behaviours, and are best suited to the high court. What is apparent from reading the report though is that there are specific cases that are clearly open to compensation claims.
From the wiki reference about Bruce Tervorrow who was awarded $525,000 in compensation.
Mr Trevorrow was separated from his mother in December 1957 after he was admitted to Adelaide's Children's Hospital with gastroenteritis. More than six months later, his mother wrote to the state's Aboriginal Protection Board, which had fostered him out, asking when she could have her son back. "I am writing to ask if you would let me know how Bruce is and how long before I can have him back home," she wrote in July 1958. "I have not forgot I got a baby in there". The Court was told the board lied to her, writing her son was "making good progress" and that the doctors still needed him for treatment.
More still from the submission to the report:
My mother told us that the eldest daughter was a twin - it was a boy. And in those days, if Aboriginals had twins or triplets, they'd take the babies away. Mum swore black and blue that boy was alive. But they told her that he had died. I only found out a couple of years ago - that boy, the nursing sister took him. A lot of babies were not recorded.
I remember another friend of mine in St Ives. She wanted to adopt a little Aboriginal baby. And she was telling me when she got this little one that she went out to the mission and said she wanted a little baby boy. The mission manager said, `Mrs J has a couple of boys [already], we'll take her third one'. So they adopted that child. If Mrs J would have objected, she said the welfare officer says, `Well, if you don't give us that child, we'll take the other two'.
Now these are clear cases of illegal activity. If the actions of the authorities were entirely legal then there would be no cause to lie to the parents. These are, along with the rest of the five hundred submissions to the inquiry, entirely anecdotal, but if investigated through the rigors of a courtroom I’m sure they could be substantiated, as was the case in the Trevorrow matter.
I urge you to read this page of the report containing the submissions I have quoted and many more. It is saddening and heartbreaking stuff.
In conclusion:
It occurred in the early stages in good faith, albeit completely racists and ignorant good faith. In the later stages, it occurred though deceit and wilful ignorance. There is no double that a formal apology is needed, and that compensation is required in specific cases. I stop short of pushing for a blanket class action type compensation response because actions that occurred under the legislation of the time, however abhorrent, will most probably not win in a court.
That said, I think it would be a great idea to create a fund to provide support to those affected by the removal of Aboriginal children, in a similar way to those supporting returned veterans.
As a final note, I also add that any argument stating that the government cannot easily provide for this compensation, in the era of $10 billion plus budged surpluses and $50 billion plus election promises simply has their priorities wrong.
Please provide sensible critiques here. If you have to play devil’s advocate then back it up with a reasonable argument and not controversial comments for the sake of controversy.
I was discussing this with some colleagues this afternoon and I found myself automatically jumping to the defence of ‘the stolen generation’ and arguing that compensation be awarded to the poor buggers who were stolen. During the mini-shitstorm that followed I found myself sounding increasingly ignorant of the actual facts. So I’ve decided to start from scratch. What the fuck is going on here?
I am going to quote heavily from the 1997 report “Bringing Them Home : Report of the National Inquiry into the Separation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Children from Their Families”. I am relying on this report because it seems to be the most comprehensive examination of the ‘Stolen Generation’ that exists. It was commissioned by the Australian Attorney-General Michael Levarch.
So What Happened?
The history of White-Black Australian relations has undergone many phases. It was initially one of pure colonisation, but the problem of the blacks was both a physical and a political one for the early settlers. Various solutions to the ‘black problem’ have been proposed and implemented over the last two hundred years. Firstly it was ignorance, then assimilation, then integration, then seemingly ignorance again and most recently intervention.
The British rulers, unhappy with the way the settlers were dealing with the Indigenous population, created a protectorate system to improve the lot of the blacks. Thus we entered various periods of various approaches that actually resulted in the full blood population being resigned to the fate of extinction, while highlighting the new phenomenon of the ‘half-caste’. The non-full-blood population was recognised as showing none of the signs of extinction of their purer cousins and were thus seen as a problem that would have to be dealt with, rather than left to run it’s own course. Thus the process of assimilation was started.
Poverty Rampant? Was it in the best interests of the child?
A common argument is that the children were living in poverty and thus it was right to remove them from their parents. My research has concluded that poverty was not the main reason for the removal of children, assimilation was, but it has and continues to be used as an excuse, so lets look at that argument. I prefix this by saying that very few would argue that poverty did not exist amongst the Indigenous population at the time.
Under the general child welfare law, Indigenous children had to be found to be `neglected', `destitute' or `uncontrollable'. These terms were applied by courts much more readily to Indigenous children than non-Indigenous children as the definitions and interpretations of those terms assumed a non-Indigenous model of child-rearing and regarded poverty as synonymous with neglect. From here.
From the middle part of that article it seems clear that the aboriginal people were caught in a kind of Catch-22 situation. Traditional methods of child rearing were by definition neglectful, yet they were not given the same allocations of welfare as the white population until 1966 and they were constantly scrutinised on their level of poverty, having their children taken away as a result of not fitting the white minimal levels of it.
So while poverty most certainly existed, it was reinforced by the Government’s restriction of welfare to the population. It is also worth noting that we are not talking about Aboriginal people living traditionally on their lands here. In most cases they had been kicked off their productive lands by the settlers.
Is it ancient history? How long did this go on?
The process could be argued to have started from the moment of colonisation, but the legislation backing it up was probably most formalised at the beginning of last century. It is by no means a relic of the past though.
During the 1950s and 1960s even greater numbers of Indigenous children were removed from their families to advance the cause of assimilation. Not only were they removed for alleged neglect, they were removed to attend school in distant places, to receive medical treatment and to be adopted out at birth.
That is not ancient history by any stretch of the imagination. My parents were born in the 1950’s and they sure as hell remember their childhood.
How many were affected?
Here the figures are simply not available. Records were incomplete or have vanished over time. The report states:
Nationally we can conclude with confidence that between one in three and one in ten Indigenous children were forcibly removed from their families and communities in the period from approximately 1910 until 1970.
The report goes on to say that the actual number fluctuated during different periods, and also includes those removed for actual neglect and justice reasons (i.e. prison). It is undeniably a large number in relation to the Aboriginal population.
Is an apology is justified?
This seems to me to be a separate issue from whether compensation is justified. It represents an acknowledgement that the actions taken in the past are regretful and should not be repeated while also cementing in history the moving on from those times.
From the report we have the following study. Those persons removed from their families were found to be:
- less likely to have undertaken a post secondary education;
- much less likely to have stable living conditions and more likely to be geographically mobile;
- three times more likely to say they had no-one to call on in a crisis;
- less likely to be in a stable, confiding relationship with a partner;
- twice as likely to report having been arrested by police and having been convicted of an offence;
- three times as likely to report having been in gaol;
- less likely to have a strong sense of their Aboriginal cultural identity, more likely to have discovered their Aboriginality later in life and less likely to know about their Aboriginal cultural traditions;
- twice as likely to report current use of illicit substances; and much more likely to report intravenous use of illicit substances. From here.
Is compensation justified?
This is most certainly a matter for the lawyers, but I can offer a few pieces of insight.
While Indigenous children were being removed from their families at a young age, child welfare practice in relation to non-Indigenous children was being influenced by the work on maternal deprivation conducted by John Bowlby for the World Health Organisation and by a 1951 United Nations report which stressed that child welfare services should be focussed on assisting families to keep their children with them.
I’m sure a skilled lawyer could argue that this represented a failure of the provision of duty of care in relation to best practice, but I’m also fairly certain that the terms ‘duty of care’ and ‘best practice’ were not entrenched in law precedence until more recent times. Can’t really comment with confidence on that one.
More interesting is this; once the Whitlam Government increased the funding and availability of legal services to the Aboriginal population there was an immediate decline in the number of Indigenous children being removed. If there is an absence of legislative change relating to the removed of children and more specifically Indigenous children around that period then it seems to me that the removal of at least a portion of those children was illegal under the legislation at the time. Remember, this is 1972 we are talking about here. I was born seven years later.
Those are the arguments most suited to class action (do we have those in Australia?) type claims that point out systemic illegal or negligent behaviours, and are best suited to the high court. What is apparent from reading the report though is that there are specific cases that are clearly open to compensation claims.
From the wiki reference about Bruce Tervorrow who was awarded $525,000 in compensation.
Mr Trevorrow was separated from his mother in December 1957 after he was admitted to Adelaide's Children's Hospital with gastroenteritis. More than six months later, his mother wrote to the state's Aboriginal Protection Board, which had fostered him out, asking when she could have her son back. "I am writing to ask if you would let me know how Bruce is and how long before I can have him back home," she wrote in July 1958. "I have not forgot I got a baby in there". The Court was told the board lied to her, writing her son was "making good progress" and that the doctors still needed him for treatment.
More still from the submission to the report:
My mother told us that the eldest daughter was a twin - it was a boy. And in those days, if Aboriginals had twins or triplets, they'd take the babies away. Mum swore black and blue that boy was alive. But they told her that he had died. I only found out a couple of years ago - that boy, the nursing sister took him. A lot of babies were not recorded.
I remember another friend of mine in St Ives. She wanted to adopt a little Aboriginal baby. And she was telling me when she got this little one that she went out to the mission and said she wanted a little baby boy. The mission manager said, `Mrs J has a couple of boys [already], we'll take her third one'. So they adopted that child. If Mrs J would have objected, she said the welfare officer says, `Well, if you don't give us that child, we'll take the other two'.
Now these are clear cases of illegal activity. If the actions of the authorities were entirely legal then there would be no cause to lie to the parents. These are, along with the rest of the five hundred submissions to the inquiry, entirely anecdotal, but if investigated through the rigors of a courtroom I’m sure they could be substantiated, as was the case in the Trevorrow matter.
I urge you to read this page of the report containing the submissions I have quoted and many more. It is saddening and heartbreaking stuff.
In conclusion:
It occurred in the early stages in good faith, albeit completely racists and ignorant good faith. In the later stages, it occurred though deceit and wilful ignorance. There is no double that a formal apology is needed, and that compensation is required in specific cases. I stop short of pushing for a blanket class action type compensation response because actions that occurred under the legislation of the time, however abhorrent, will most probably not win in a court.
That said, I think it would be a great idea to create a fund to provide support to those affected by the removal of Aboriginal children, in a similar way to those supporting returned veterans.
As a final note, I also add that any argument stating that the government cannot easily provide for this compensation, in the era of $10 billion plus budged surpluses and $50 billion plus election promises simply has their priorities wrong.
Please provide sensible critiques here. If you have to play devil’s advocate then back it up with a reasonable argument and not controversial comments for the sake of controversy.
29 Comments:
John Howard drafted a motion of "deep and sincere regret over the removal of Aboriginal children from their parents" which was passed by the federal parliament in August 1999. That sure sounds like a good enough apology to me why the hell do we need another one?
Are we going to keep apologising and then forgetting we've apologised already? Or does an apology not count as an apology unless money is involved?
By
Michael, At
11 February 2008 23:56
Fair point about Howard's apology. I do think that, like many important topics, we have been forever bogged down in meaningless semantics rather than dealing with the underlying issues.
But does it negate anything I have said? Do you agree that an apology by the government for injustices against the Indigenous people by past governments was justified? And more importantly, do you agree that compensation is justified in the manner that I have proposed it?
You can surely see that your dismissal of the affair as ‘dealt with’ will do nothing for reconciliation.
By
Sam Cox, At
12 February 2008 01:22
Sam I agree with what you have written.
In response to the previous comment regarding Howards 'apology' I think it is important to recognise the use or lack of appropriate language. In Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture, the word 'sorry' holds a special meaning. "In many Aboriginal communities sorry is an adapted English word used to describe the rituals surrounding death (Sorry Business). Sorry, in these contexts, is also often used to express empathy or sympathy rather than responsibility." I think it is really important that we recognise the wrongs done - its that simple. And if we have to keep reinterating how sorry we are for what has happened to this entire group of people, so be it. Its not that hard for us to acknowledge that our Government was wrong. I reckon it would be a lot harder to get over being raised with out your family.
By
RICHO, At
12 February 2008 09:03
Yes we should say sorry to the tens of thousands of parents, aunties, uncles, siblings and grandparents who had children stolen and to the children who were taken from their families.
I disagree that compensation is best left to the lawyers and the courts. Courts are beyond the means of most people due to the cost and proving your case in a court room involves lots of evidence. I suspect there are bugger all government records relating to many of the individual cases and the records that were written are hardly going to state that the children were stolen because they were black. Fed Parliament should follow the lead of WA, Tasmania and those other States that are still considering compensation and spare the stolen generation and their families the cost, pain and many, many years involved in any court case.
By
Sophie, At
12 February 2008 20:43
I just found this... not sure if it's Rudd's apology speech for tomorrow... might be a first draft or something...
I'm Sorry
We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.
We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and
enterprise.
We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.
We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.
We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed your people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.
We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.
We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.
We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments
We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.
We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.
We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.
We apologise for giving you interest free loans.
We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money.
We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters' wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)
We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.
By
Anonymous, At
12 February 2008 23:14
I would normally say get your copypasta hate-sermon out of here and fuck off back to masturbating to 4chan furry porn, but I have decided to humour you with a response. It’s original content too. OMG!
I'm Sorry
We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.
[What? We get doctors and free medical care too moron. It’s called Medicare. The only difference is that it works for us whites.]
We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and
enterprise.
[Invasions should be welcomed by the invadees because of the linguistic opportunities they bring? You can teach someone English without slaughtering their people you know. In fact, I think it might actually work better.]
We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.
[Besides the obvious initial idiocy of giving a nomadic hunter a three bedroom fibro home with a gas cooktop, it’s not just the Aboriginals who do this, is it? Ever been to a really poor (white) suburb? It’s full of destroyed housing commission homes, smashed up phone boxes and broken shop windows. Poverty is the common factor here.]
We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.
[Cannibals eh? News to me, news to them too. Oh, and the legal system has just been chipper for the Aboriginal population.]
We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed your people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.
[While not winning any export deals, the Indigenous population were doing pretty well with out our farms. In fact, I’m quite sure they are doing considerably worse right now, nutrition wise.]
We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.
[Again, working fine before settlement. Damn, I wish I was naked now.]
We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.
[Again, no need before.]
We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the instalments.
[What?]
We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.
[What? – Who are you more likely so see on the bus or walking? Johnny Whitefella or Jimmy Blackfella?]
We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.
[What?]
We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.
[What?]
We apologise for giving you interest free loans.
[What?]
We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money.
[What? Hey Pope, we stole your church and chucked a DisneyLand on it, s'at cool?]
We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters' wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)
[What?]
We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.
["Expenditures on health for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, 2001-02 shows that per person health spending on Indigenous people in 2001-02 was $3,901 compared with $3,308 for non-Indigenous people, a ratio of 1.18 to 1." Link
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. Although they do get $500 more than us per year. Greedy buggers, all they had to give up for it was 17 years of their life expectancy.]
Jesus, hating Aboriginals because they get welfare is like whinging that the Townsville under 12 girls soccer team is getting extra coaching in their match against Brazil. We're already thrashing them in the race war people, and hating the blacks wont make your pathetic yet incredibly opulent white man's life seem any better.
By
Sam Cox, At
13 February 2008 08:23
Oh Sam, I can't resist the temptation to reply to this ignorant redneck (My apologies to all the nice rednecks out there).
"I'm Sorry
We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies."
I’m sorry to. Here I was thinking that Indigenous people could utilise Medicare like every other Australian. Now I realise that we are expected to treat it like some sort of special privilege, one that we should constantly thank white people like you for, with all your hard earned taxpayer dollars. Idiot, in this day and age I am “expected” to die 17 years earlier than you. And by the way, last time I checked, surviving and multiplying was a good thing, considering the treatment of Indigenous people in the past.
“We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and
enterprise.”
Hey buddy. “European civilisation” wasn’t that flash. I don’t recall Indigenous people spreading venereal disease all over the globe, emptying their bed pans into the streets of merry old England, or invading and subjugating entire continents. And as for education, isn’t the reading and writing skill of school children now said to be worse than 40 years ago.
“We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.”
Yes sir Mr. house building contractor, please come to my remote community in the Top End and build a house for which you get paid a truck load of money. Don’t employ any locals to build the same and maybe allow them to become skilled in the many crafts necessary to build houses. Nor give them an opportunity to earn a living instead of receiving welfare or a sense of ownership and pride. Get back in your little box in Macquarie Fields.
“We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.”
Is this the same law and order you speak of that allowed colonials to hunt down and shoot Indigenous people who were accused of such minor acts as stealing loaves of bread or sheep or cattle? Or is this the same law and order that allowed various liberal and labour governments to remove Indigenous children from their parents for decades. As for the allegation of cannibalism, well gee wiz you’ve caught me out there. I should be the one apologising for eating your sister.
“We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed your people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.”
Indigenous people have survived tens of thousands of years not because we felt it necessary to clear vast tracks of land in the few arable places in Australia, nor to dam our river systems and cause untold havoc with salinity and water levels, but because we live in concert with the land. Droughts come and go, but soil erosion, salinity, and every other problem associated with over farming rests firmly with your so called “development”.
“We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.”
Yes indeed, fabric made in China no doubt, not like the flannel shirt you stitched together from your mother’s table cloth.
‘We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.”
What? And have little soft and tender feet like you?? Not likely. Keep your ug boots to yourself.
“We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the instalments”.
Which bank is this? I’d like to open up an account.
“We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.”
Only when you over police Indigenous people and convey them to prison or the Court house dumb ass.
“We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.”
Well, considering that the life expectancy is so shit, this could turn out to be a minor windfall, don’t you think?
“We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.”
That’s because the land is owned by those Indigenous people, such as in Arnhem land. Are you really that inbred that you have no clue as to the land tenure systems in this country.
“We apologise for giving you interest free loans.”
Its called an AGC credit card dumb ass. Any mullet growing, cannabis smoking hick such as you can apply for it.
“We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money.”
If you must know NT Parks and Wildlife get a significant cut from all monies received, but again, it is their land. If there was anything in your backyard that would attract international attention (not including your hydroponics shed or your mother’s big red pick-up truck) you could reap the rewards just the same.
“We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters' wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)”
That’s it; I am signing my daughter up for marriage straight away. I am guess you really are THAT stupid. Drugs are bad, mm’kay.
“We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.”
Sam already covered this one, I can’t be bothered. Just remember, we are multiplying and surviving. You on the other hand will hopefully OD on some bad shit and never have the chance to sire any children with your sister.
By
Nigel Browne, At
13 February 2008 17:58
Like I said at the very start of my post, "I just found this...", which I did, in a forum I was reading on the internet last night. I myself don't actually believe any of that shit, I just posted what I had found to see Sam's reaction to it.
And while Sam's response was epic and I agree with everything he said, I am a little saddened about all the personal insults hurled my way, in his and the following post, when I never said I believed any of that stuff. I guess I should have quoted better.
By
Anonymous, At
13 February 2008 19:56
"I am a little saddened about all the personal insults hurled my way" ?!?
Just informing the public of some information you came across eh? Pull the other one. I know you didn't write that trash, but you knew it would cause offence. You got what you wanted, an emotional response to your inflammatory shit stirring. Every trolls dream. Be happy.
Blacks gonna take your house anyway you know?
By
Sam Cox, At
13 February 2008 20:32
Now that's how you destroy a troll.
By
Dr Funkenstein, At
14 February 2008 07:20
Anonymous (a.k.a. Tony Abbott) everything you posted was a personal insult. Which, given your cowering response was the aim of the entire exercise.
But do not despair. We need people like you to contribute further to our great nation. Who else is going to drive our dump trucks, empty of septic tanks, sell deal bags near schools, and prey on underage girls.
By
Nigel Browne, At
14 February 2008 09:37
>>empty of septic tanks
empty our septic tanks
*fixed*
By
Anonymous, At
14 February 2008 12:34
Thanks Kenny.
By
Nigel Browne, At
14 February 2008 12:41
I just want to say sorry to anonymous. Sorry I have to share this nation with someone like you. Sorry that you hate Aboriginal folks so much. Sorry that you must feel sick every morning when you wake up and realise that those pesky blacks are STILL here.
And I know who you are...you're the guy who didn't show up to Parliament yesterday morning, and instead stayed at home in Wollstonecraft spreading your race hate via the net.
By
Tom G, At
14 February 2008 21:14
Oh, and by the way, 'regret' is the word that the video shop uses when it sends you a letter saying it 'regrets to inform you that your new release movie is 45 days overdue and you owe us a buttload of cash'. It ain't the same as sorry, no way Jose.
By
Tom G, At
14 February 2008 21:20
I think in this case 'regret' and 'sorry' are exactly the same. Kevin Rudd didn't steal the children, the current government he is representing didn't steal the children, the majority of living Australians didn't play a part in stealing the children, so there's no way in this case that Sorry can mean 'Sorry for something I did'. It's 'Sorry for something that happened'. Which is the same as saying you regret something happened.
By
Michael, At
14 February 2008 22:33
And I quotes:
"To the stolen generations, I say the following: as Prime Minister of Australia, I am sorry.
On behalf of the government of Australia, I am sorry.
On behalf of the parliament of Australia, I am sorry.
I offer you this apology without qualification."
I think you are spliting hairs with this whole "regret" and "sorry" business. Nowhere is Rudd's apology did he use the word regret. The government said sorry plain and simple.
By
Nigel B, At
15 February 2008 10:30
Nigel: See my original post and tom g's last post. John Howard used the word regret in 1999 when he apologised the first time. If you are saying we are "splitting hairs" and they are the same thing then why did we need the second apology?
By
Michael, At
15 February 2008 10:37
howards speech about 'regret' clearly didnt cut the mustard.
and as richo has said in her comment, sorry is the more appropriate word.
i think its pretty clear that a 'proper' apology such as the once delivered by Rudd was an important step forward for many people.
By
Anonymous, At
15 February 2008 15:26
John Howard apologised??? Kevin Rudd made a second apology??? Your kidding right?
All that Howard did was to acknowledge past mistreatment of Indigenous Australians and offer "regret" in relation to the hurt and trauma caused. Howard's "regret" failed to specifically acknowledge or apologise for any damages suffered by those of the stolen generation who were removed from their families to live on missions and at other institutions.
Would I be apologising if I said, "I regret punching Anonymous in the mouth because he/she is an ignorant redneck", or " I am sorry that I punched anonymous in the mouth...etc....etc". I think the latter sounds more like an apology.
By
Nigel Biff Browne, At
15 February 2008 15:40
The difference is in your example you actually did the thing, you punched anonymous, so the word Sorry is different to the word regret in that case. When you are sorry about something you didn't do you are saying you regret it happened.
By
Michael, At
15 February 2008 15:47
>> second apology??? Your kidding right?
second apology??? You're kidding right?
*fixed*
By
Anonymous, At
15 February 2008 15:48
Michael:
One more thing about your initial post relating to "money".
Each and every person in this country has the right to sue for damages and seek compensation for a tort committed against them (in whatever shape or form).
Regardless of the entity committing the tort (govt, corporations, natural persons, etc), if a person or class of persons can prove in Court that they have suffered (physically, mentally, financial, etc) from the direct actions of that entity, then they deserve compensation don't they?
I would hazard a guess that there are more non-Indigenous people in this country falsely claiming worker's compo then there will ever be stolen generation people attempting to undertake expensive and stressful legal action against the government. But no one seems to be crying fowl over such a mundane topic as worker's compo, unless of course, you watch ACA.
By
Nigel "Money Bags" Browne, At
15 February 2008 15:58
Any person who was illegally removed from their home by the government should try and get compensation from the government, no question. I'm not arguing that at all.
My problem is with Kevin Rudd doing something John Howard already did, but playing it up so he looks really good, and working in that he's delivering on some election promise. But John Howard already did it!
Also, anyone falsely claiming workers compo should be locked up.
By
Michael, At
15 February 2008 16:15
Rudd said "sorry" on behalf of the Australian Government in recognition of policies of past governments (Liberal and Labour). In the past other Australian governments have apologised to groups (such as the Vietnam vets) for the policies of other previous governments.
You can regret something happening in the past and not be sorry about it (no feel the need to apologise), just like little Johnny.
By
Nigel Apology Accepted Browne, At
15 February 2008 16:16
>> (no feel the need to apologise)
(nor feel the need to apologise)
*fixed*
By
Nigel Spell Check Browne, At
15 February 2008 16:23
>> government. But no one seems to be crying fowl
government. But no one seems to be crying foul
>> and not be sorry about it (no feel the need to
and not be sorry about it (not feel the need to
*fixed*
By
Anonymous, At
15 February 2008 16:24
can anybody *fix* anonymous's head?
By
Tom *fixed* G, At
23 February 2008 17:00
Michael - if a work colleague came in on Monday, and told me that their daughter had been killed in a car accident over the weekend, I would say, 'I'm so sorry', even though I had absolutely nothing to do with the event. If I said, 'I regret that' (however deeply or sincerely), they would think I was taking the piss. I really think there is a major distinction between the two words; maybe not in their technical meaning, but in the spirit behind them.
By
Tom G, At
23 February 2008 17:13
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